WHO IS NELLY DANSEN? Interview Lovre Mrduljas with Nelly Dansen

Who is Nelly Dansen?

Interview Lovre Mrduljas with Nelly Dansen

(zie ook: https://sign2.nl/events/concepts-of-me-nelly-dansen-aysen-kaptanoglu-sanne-lok/ )

Intro

Between April 6th and May 5th (2024), the white cube interior of SIGN was dedicated to its latest exhibition, CONCEPTS OF ME, showcasing the works of three young artists: Nelly Dansen, Ayşen Kaptanoğlu, and Sanne Lok. The spotlight of this interview is the first mention of the three, Nelke Cor Mast, also known as Nelly Dansen (she/they). Nelke – a Frisian-born, conceptual artist, and a self-proclaimed Bimbo – delves into the complexities and intersections of gender, sexuality, and societal expectations, challenging normative standards as a means of accepting one’s authentic self. Currently, she approaches these issues through a Bimbo “ultra-ego”, dubbed Nelly Dansen. Through Nelly, Nelke embraces “this derogatory [Bimbo] stereotype in all her honesty [in an] aim to push the hyper-femme agenda”.

Nelke/Nelly’s work is first in line upon entering the exhibition. A screen, attached to a nearby wall, stands off-centre amid a large banner with a bolded imprint of the word “PORN?!”. The film broadcasts by the monitor shows her latest work, Good Cock Bad Cock (2024) – a seventeen-minute-long re-enactment of her encounter with the US border customs in Las Vegas. The result of this interaction ultimately culminates in Nelke’s ban of entrance into the United States territory under the premise that Nelly was a prostitute-persona, guised under the rhetoric of an “alleged” artistic practice. These events unfold within the film with a satirical overtone of gestural humour, juxtaposed by the film’s serious dialogue.

On May 2nd – following the screening of her graduation work, Head Over Heels (2023), the day before at OOST – I met up with Nelke (and Nelly) to pose several questions about herself and her work.

LM – Lovre Mrduljas
ND – Nelly Dansen

LM: Who is Nelly Dansen?

ND: NELLY DANSEN is an alter ego that I’ve birthed alive 5 years ago. In ‘Good Cock Bad Cock’ I refer to it as an ultra-ego. After the interrogation that I had at the border office in Vegas, they gave me a transcript of the interview and made a typo. In the transcription they wrote “Her name is Nelke Mast and her ultra-ego is Nelly Dansen “, and I thought it was such a funny typo because NELLY DANSEN kind of became a Ultra ego, as she sometimes is larger than myself. I think Nelly Dansen was also the reason that got me deported. There is this interesting dynamic between my alter ego and my given self. Sometimes I don’t know who is more powerful, who is creating who? Especially in this situation in Vegas; I felt like NELLY DANSEN took over the course of my life. Sometimes I feel like I’ve created a monster that I kind of can’t escape from anymore haha.

LM: How would you define what is a bimbo? That is, what is a bimbo to you?

ND: I think for me the bimbo, or the modern day bimbo, is a reincarnation of the 80s Punk identity, but then in a different (and sexy) outfit that tackles sexist and misogynist ideologie. They both rebel against the same systems. To be a bimbo is very much to be a rebel – She stands up for what is right and stands against what is wrong – all that, while looking hot at the same time. Punks and Bimbos are both dismissed for the same reasons: they’re not taken serious based on how they look. Just like Punk, being a Bimbo is not just about an aesthetic, it is more a way of living.. It’s a whole.

LM: Could you recall the moment you noticed the manifestation of NELLY DANSEN?

ND: Maybe this is a silly answer, but every time I was on the guestlist for a party or an event I had to say my name: “Nelke Mast ”. This would often confuse doorhost, as they couldn’t find Nelke Mast on there – but they did find NELLY DANSEN. Which was a strong confirmation that even my close friends saw me more as NELLY DANSEN. It’s those small things that made me grow into that persona even more.

LM: There is duality in your work – what you say and how you say it.

NL: Yes. In that duality, certain things can become even clearer. Like, when you laugh about something that you shouldn’t laugh about. The Taxi Driver situation [from Head over Heels] almost becomes hilarious, for the deconstructed mind, because it is such a terrible representation of reality. I always hear people giggling with disgust in the cinema when that scene is playing. This always makes me proud of my audience because it’s a sign that they get it.

LM: I mean, it is a form of an absurd, right?

ND: Yeah, I want to highlight that absurdity.

LM: Do you view Nelly solely as a virtual manifestation, or is she corporeal?

ND: I think she embodies real life and mirrors it. She attracts all these real-life situations. She’s very much here with us right now. She’s not only virtual, I don’t want to separate the two because I think it’s a constant. Sometimes I’m afraid I don’t explain this right to others and that results in them thinking I put on an act, or that NELLY DANSEN is something so different from me. I think I’ve grown more comfortable in that I am that alter ego (or ultra-ego…) IDK, I think in some ways NELLY DANSEN also has raised Nelke Mast and therefore I don’t think it’s an alter ego anymore. I think I am just that. And I’ve grown more into that character – it’s becoming more as a whole.

LM: How did the whole, month-long process at SIGN look?

ND: It was so much fun!!! A month is such a crazy period to make something. The first two weeks for me and Sanny were mostly there for us to get used to the space and getting into the rhythm- you’re just thinking about the idea that you want to do. The idea to make ‘Good Cock Bad Cock’ came quickly. Then, it took me one week to film everything. The last week was like 12–13-hour workdays to make it all fit together. The ending of such a process is very interesting. So first, we dive into something with such intensity. So when the exhibition opens, the work (for us) is done but simultaneously something new starts for the audience – it feels like you’re passing over your work. I’m really grateful for this experience. I learned a lot about my work process. I am the biggest overthinker there is, I had the idea to make GOOD COCK BAD COCK already on the first day, but I thought: “Maybe I should have something else. Maybe it’s not big enough”.

LM: What about the “PORN?!” banner behind the TV. I’m guessing you made that as well.

ND: I made it two days before the exhibition. That was very last minute and that is also very typical me. I was struggling a lot with what world I wanted to create outside of the screen. I think this banner ties everything together. My original idea was to put down the TV or to install it in a position that invites the viewer or makes him stand in a certain way. Maybe in a humiliating or fragile way, like how I felt during my interrogation. As if you are being watched and dominated by something bigger. I first thought to install it in a pet-down-position-esque installation, but I couldn’t think of a way to execute it. I also thought of putting the film on the floor – so people had to stand in a circle around in a bukkake position. But putting it on the floor felt a bit too easy. Then came the idea to just take up more space on the wall. The banner makes it more visible from the window.

LM: And how did the US story happen? You were in LA for your master’s project, right?

ND: I went to film HEAD OVER HEELS in California two years ago. I was visiting a friend who was studying at Berkeley University. Together, we made this whole bimbo liberation film in the US. And now exactly that film was the reason that I couldn’t enter the US two years later. Which is just so ironic. Like okay, now we unveiled your secret, I can’t come in anymore? I was going to screen Head Over Heels actually in San Francisco. That’s why I flew to Vegas. But… oh well… They stopped me.

LM: How was the experience?

ND: It was the best. I went to visit my friend Matilda Elofsson. She was helping me a lot with my thesis and my research project. Everybody always asked me if we went there just to film – that was not really the case. We just made some plans for ourselves and we brought our camera along. The only thing we staged was this running away scene from the Playboy Mansion. The framework that I always work with is the Madonna-whore dichotomy. We thought: “Let’s make a road trip that starts from a place that embodies the whore”, so the Playboy Mansion:” And travel to a place that embodies the Madonna”, and we ended up at a hotel called the Madonna Inn. That was the loose structure we set for ourselves in America. We j wanted to make a road trip from the whore to Madonna and caught everything on camera while doing so. This has been the best trip I think I’ve ever had. And there’s still so much footage that I didn’t even get a chance to use.

LM: And the film screened at OOST on May 1st was your graduation work?

ND: Yes! HEAD OVER HEELS was made for my Master’s degree Artscience that finished at the KABK. What did you think? How was it? Did you go in blind, or maybe you read something?

LM: I liked two parts of that film (Head over Heels), the Uber driver and the Mercedes driver scenes. They were authentic. It relates to your everyday experience – the scenes are very pure. How was it to be in those situations? What did you feel?

ND: I felt like my performance succeeded. That scene was a perfect confrontation between the bimbo on the streets, and the male gaze. Him approaching us, before checking out the whole situation and seeing two girls filming something, he probably thought he had something better to offer. Which was perfect as he thought that he opened up a world to us, which he also did in some way but then on our terms. I don’t know, it was kind of a perfect situation. I also never sat in a Lambo before so it that was pretty iconic as well.

LM: The experience of that scene was unnerving in a sense. One can feel a sense of discomfort seeing it unfold.

ND: Yeah, I get that comment from a lot of people. I personally don’t feel it anymore; maybe I’ve been getting used to it so much. Think I have just grown to resistance against it over time. And I am not sure if that’s a good thing. But maybe that’s where my alter ego, my ultra-ego, also comes into play so that I can distance myself a little bit from these situations. Through Nelly, I can also see the situation a bit more from a helicopter perspective.

LM: You also often use 3D programs?

ND: In this film there is a lot of 3D material, but that’s not a field I am often in! The 3D render is made by Gjorgji Despodov. I would love to learn how to make that myself, as I think it is a perfect way to soothe the ins and outs of this digital identity – to show different forms of approaching this persona.

LM: I read your thesis. It was very interesting. It reads similar to a manifesto. Was that the focus of it?

ND: Yes, I first wanted to write something inspired by the SCUM manifesto from Valerie Solanas – the lady who tried to kill Andy Warhol. She wrote this book called scum manifesto. It stands for a society of cutting up men. It’svery extreme, but I love it. But during my write course I changed my path a bit and wanted to write something more open to everyone. “NELLY DANSEN: A Girl Or a Concept?” maybe is only relatable for a certain group of people, but I still wanted it to be inviting for people who don’t necessarily relate.

LM: In your thesis, you mention the importance of intersectionality in throughout work. How does that come into play?

ND: Since my work is experience based, it’s very important to acknowledge all the intersections that build up someone’s experience. Everyone has a different experience; so I can only speak the NELLY DANSEN persona. My bimbo persona also comes with a lot of privilege and embodies kind of the classical idea of how a bimbo should look like. I think therefore I also attract those experiences in the US and am in a more comfortable position where I face less criticism and stigma concerning this derogatory stereotype I am reclaiming. Responsibility and accountability is key, always, but especially as an artist, you are basically a politician; but then advocating your thoughts in a different outfit. (Mine happening to be a hot pink stripper dress I bought in L.A. last year)

LM: You pose an open-ended question in your thesis – do you consider your work as “gender satire”?

ND: Gender satire is a way to make fun of stereotypes and break free from those confining boxes, so I definitely think I play with satire but at the same time I also feel like it’s more a form of embracement? In some way? Not sure how to explain it… I am not only making fun of something to break free from it, I also am totally embracing the bimbo as a liberating act. But in general; I think that humor is one of the strongest languages where you can connect with people. If you can laugh about something together, it is immediately easier to bridge a knowledge gap or to transfer certain ideologies to someone who doesn’t know about these topics. I just think people don’t laugh enough in museums. It is a way of breaking the white cube. Art is often supposed to be very serious. It’s to be enjoyed from a distance. I think that by laughing you also connect with the work more easily. It becomes more emotional. But it’s also not that I start off my work process thinking “ OMG let’s make something hilarious”. That is always something that happens naturally.

LM: You speak of self-conceptualization. What does this term mean to you?

ND: To me, it means the shaping of an identity and how that identity becomes a concept of its own. It’s taking charge of how you raise yourself. NELLY DANSEN can be seen as a concept; a construct of its own that lives its own life. I think that’s what I mean by self-conceptualization.

LM: Your thesis mentions the term “cyber goddess” as the title of one of its chapters, what does this term mean to you?

ND: My work is often very intertextual and cross-references many different things. Donna Haraway her Cyborg Manifesto is an important literary work in the feminist sphere and obviously inspired me. The chapter you mention, I speak of a clash that happened between my digital identity and my physical form. So to name that chapter “Curating the Cyborg Goddess” felt like a fitting wink. My work often consists of a lot of winks… I flirt with a lot of different theories.

LM: You also mention your dealings with the bimbo concept as the beginning of your practice. I assume this is not something you want to deal with in the long term.

ND: Yes, exactly. For me the bimbo is a way of freeing myself. If I only stayed within the bimbo narrative, then it becomes a trap. I think that itself is very contradictory. Head Over Heels felt more like an artist introduction – the introduction of the bimbo. I think in ‘GOOD COCK BAD COCK’ the focus on the Bimbo is already fading. I am also noticing that lately I rather am behind the camera and don’t like being in front of it anymore. Is this Bimbo Fatigue? I don’t know… but what I do know is that I am Bimbo at heart forever…